----- Original Message -----
From: "James Feger"
To: "James Feger"
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:58 AM
Subject: Rocball vs FIVB
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Feger [mailto:rocball@saipan.com]
> Sent: 28 April 2004 12:36
> To: technical.development@fivb.org
>
> Subject: What Happened?
>
>
> Volleyball use to be a sport where a ball had to be served over the net in
> order for a team to score a point. Now a team can earn a point when the ball
> is served under the net? Volleyball use to be a sport where a team had to
> serve a ball over the net in order to win a set or game. Now a team can win
> a set or game without being challenged to play off the serve???
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: FIVB Technical Department
> To: 'James Feger'
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:32 PM
> Subject: RE: What Happened?
>
>
> Dear Mr. Feger.
>
> The Rules have changed considerably from the time you are refering to.
> You can access the Rules on our website to study those changes here:
> http://www.fivb.ch/EN/Volleyball/Rules/Rules.htm
> The sport of Volleyball has changed and the game has also developed and our
> changes have proven to be very succesful with the new Rally Point Scoring
> system.
>
> Best regards
> FIVB TECHNICAL DEPARTMENT
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Feger [mailto:rocball@saipan.com]
> Sent: 29 April 2004 02:21
> To: technical@fivb.org
> Subject: Re: What Happened?
>
>
> Yes, I know.... How has earning points off every bad serve improved the
> game? These are the kind of rules found in sports like table tennis. I
> really don't think a volleyball court is the right venue for this kind of
> scoring system. And, serving the ball to win set or game is, or was a very
> significant feature of volleyball's side-out system. Penalty point serve
> isn't a new concept in this kind of team net sport. However, it should be
> used conservately and not on any serve. There is no reason this sport can't
> adopt a form of offensive and defensive scoring without taking away the
> service team's game advantage. When the service team has scoring advantage,
> it defines a team's playing situation as either offensive (service) or
> defensive (receiving). Volleyball is a game where the service team has the
> scoring advantage and the receiving team works against the score for the
> advantages of the serve. This is volleyball's balance of challenges and it
> is unique.
>
> I think you went to far in the direction of adopting the rallypoint scoring
> system as it is now practiced. And, although it makes scoring a game easier
> it under cuts the competitive spirit of this kind of team net sport. Put the
> spirit back.........
>
> best regards.....Jim Feger
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: FIVB Technical Department
> To: 'James Feger'
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 11:07 PM
> Subject: RE: What Happened?
>
>
> Dear Mr. Feger.
>
> I understand your comments but I do not approve with your ideas in this area
> after having being a player for over 20 years and playing in both systems.
> First of all to exlplain to you. The RPS system was meant to shorten the
> games for TV and cut out long rallies of sideout scoring and to make more
> excitement to the game. Our studies have shown that with the Libero the
> offensive got better and we have many spectacular rallies. The cases you are
> refering to are very unlikely to happen.
>
> Thank you however for your input.
>
> Best regards
> Helgi THORSTEINSSON
> FIVB TECHNICAL COORDINATOR
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Feger
> To: technical@fivb.org
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 8:36 PM
> Subject: Re: What Happened?
>
>
> Dear Mr. Thorsteinsson
>
> After sending my last message, I realized you probably were not affiliated
> with the FIVB when I first introduced our then version of offensive and
> defensive scoring. However, we have been developing these kind of
> competitive features in a team net sport since 1979. In 1993 and in 1994 we
> were televised by the CNN World Report Internationally. In late 1994, the
> FIVB started developing what is now a version of offensive and defensive
> scoring called rallypoint. I have never consider the FIVB's adoption of
> rallypoint scoring a coincedental occurrance. However, as it turned out the
> FIVB has ventured off in one direction, while we have developed our own
> system. A system of offensive and defensive scoring that preceeds that which
> is now in operation by the FIVB. In the process we were the first to
> develope hitting and kicking, multiple point scoring, backcourt scoring,
> vertical areas of play, penalty point serves, and have implemented a
> side-out scoring system similiar to rallypoint scoring without penalizing
> every serve and service team has the game advantage of closure. These
> systems of play are not merely ideas but are actually in use as a annual
> sporting event out here in Micronesia. This year is our 21st annual season
> of Rocball.....The following, if you care to read on is a general dscription
> of how we work through a complete game and the reason why we adopted this
> system.
>
> A Volley & Rally Game
>
>
> Set Point Features:
>
> In a team net sport with multiple point scoring in an offensive and
> defensive scoring system, the task either team is challenged with, defines
> their competitive identity. The team with the serve is in the offensive
> position. The team receiving the serve is in a defensive situation. The
> offensive team has the scoring and game playing advantage. In addition to
> volleyball's traditional side-out system of scoring points (volley points),
> the offensive team has more different plays in which to earn multiple point
> scores. Furthermore, the offensive team has "exclusive closure". A set or
> game cannot be won under conditions of defensive scoring (rally points).
> Teams will not win a set or game if they do not serve for the set or game's
> winning point.
>
> The defensive team works against the offensive team's game playing
> advantages, for the control of the offensive team's competitive conditions
> of play. In general terms, the rules for defensive scoring is also based on
> volleyball's traditional side-out scoring system.
>
> Set point is fluid:
> In an offensive and defensive, multiple point scoring team net game, set
> point is fluid. In order to win a set, the offensive team must be at or over
> set point when it serves. If a set of play is designated at 20 points, the
> offensive team must have 19 or more points to win a set. If the offensive
> team is at 18 points and scores a 2 point play off the serve or during
> volley, the offensive team will then have 20 points and their next serve
> will be for set point.
>
> In situations where the defensive team has scored beyond the set point, the
> set point for that particular set of play is increased by the outcome of
> whatever rally points were scored. For example; if the offensive team has 15
> points and the defensive team has 19 points, and the defensive team scores a
> 3 points in rally, set point is 21. In order for either team to win the set,
> they must prevent their opponents from scoring rally points, and have the
> serve with 21 points.
>
> And, because set point is fluid, winning a set by a predetermined margin of
> points would be redundant and unnecessary. A set is won or lost by the total
> number of volley and rally points either team has scored. This is the system
> or framework under which multiple point scoring works to provide a balance
> of challenges in an offensive and defensive scoring team net sport.
>
> Game Point Features:
>
> An offensive and defensive, multiple point scoring game is played under a
> quarter/set system. The quarter/set system of play was developed by
> combining and modifying two different methods of measuring game time. The
> clock system in which teams win by totaled points scored in a specific
> amount of time. And, the set system of play where the winner of a game is
> based on the amount time it takes to win a certain number of sets.
>
> In an offensive and defensive scoring game, the serve is the catalyst that
> precipitates competitive action. The serve characterizes possession,
> offensive identity, control, and the position of advantage. The serve is
> what starts the competitive action to begin a game and it is the process in
> which the beginning of the end of competition is completed. After the serve,
> the competitive nature of a team net sport game with offensive and defensive
> scoring is customed to quick, erratic, and unpredictable sequences of
> activity. This makes it a difficult, if not awkward, task of organizing a
> game under the rules of a clocked system of play. However, their are
> features of a clocked system of play that can be incorporated into an
> offensive and defensive scoring team net sport.
>
> In a sport where a game is divided by quarters of play and organized by the
> clock, the points a team scores, is measured against the expiration time of
> each quarter and the game. The team that scores the most points within the
> limits and definitions of playing time, will win a regular game of play.
>
> One of the advantages of a sport that is organized under the clocked system,
> is that certain plays, offensive and defensive strategies, team
> signals...etc, can be worked out before competition begins. This is done to
> manipulate or take advantage of the known and measurable limitations of game
> time. These are some of the mechanics of a clocked game and it works well
> where a team wins by total points scored. The difference between team scores
> at any one point of a clocked game, is a measure of a team's success. What
> this does, is it creates an atmosphere of sustained anxiety and anticipation
> from the time the game begins until it is finished.
>
> However, there are disadvantages to the clocked game that need to be
> avoided. Sports organized under the clocked system of play, have one common
> weak trait, the lopsided score. A game can, for all practical purposes, be
> finished in three quarters of play or less. In a clocked sport, if by the
> end of the third quarter, the difference between team scores is so much that
> there is no sensible or sensational competitive action or series of
> competitive actions that will alter or change its unavoidable conclusion,
> the game implodes and becomes an anticlimactic experience.
>
> In a sport where a game is organized by sets, a team's playing time is
> measured against how long it takes to play for a fixed number of points per
> set, for a majority of a designated number of sets. The team that wins each
> set by a certain difference between scores and wins the majority of a
> designated number of sets, wins the game. However, in sports where sets
> determine the winners or losers of a game, a team can actually outscore
> their opponents in total points and still lose the game.
>
> A quarter/set system of play has been developed to counterpoise the pitfalls
> under which the present and traditional methods of both the clock and set
> system were organized. In the quarter/set system of play, the points a team
> scored in each of the four sets is recorded and totaled at the end of the
> fourth set. The importance of calculating the total scores, is that they are
> significant references that best characterizes sorts of predictable outcome,
> definitive moments, and conclusive strategies. The quarter/set system of
> play has an irreversible measurement of action parallel to that of sports
> organized by timed intervals of play. However, in a team net sport where
> competition could start and stop off a bad serve, or end in two hits and
> three seconds of play, there is a different momentum and course of
> expectations to be taken under consideration.
>
> The mechanics of a quarter/set system game have been worked-out so that a
> team's success can be measured by how many points it scored in each set, the
> total points it scored in a game, and how the fourth set is played. In a
> quarter/set system of play, a team cannot win a game in a losing set and a
> team cannot win a game if they haven't outscored their opponents. In the
> quarter/set system of play, a team must outscore its opponent's after four
> sets of play by at least three points and win the fourth set in order to
> "Juice Out", win the game. This is the combination of circumstances and the
> method under which the elements of quarter/set system of play functions,
> maintains, and provides competitive interest from the beginning to the end
> of a game. And, if neither team juices out, the game goes into overtime.
>
> Overtime Features:
>
> In an overtime system of play in a team net sport with goals at either end
> of the court, it is the first team that either scores 10 points or a goal,
> that wins the set and/or game. When a goal is not scored, only the offensive
> team, the team with the serve wins the set. However, whichever team can
> score a goal before the 10 point overtime set is completed, regardles of the
> point differences between teams will win the set or game. The team that had
> the most points scored at the end of the quarter/set system of play where
> neither team juiced out, would only need to win one overtime set. The team
> team that scored the least amount of points at the end of a quarter/set
> system of play where neither team juiced out, would need to win two overtime
> sets of play.
>
> The quarter/set system of play was developed for Rocball. Rocball is the
> first team net sport ever developed that incorporated hitting and kicking,
> offensive and defensive scoring, backcourt scoring, multiple point scoring,
> penalty point, and vertical areas of play. Rocball is a game derivative of
> volleyball with its roots of play founded in the Pre-Columbian,
> Meso-American sport of Tlatchli.
>
>
>
>